Bazentin Ridge

This map if for the Red Orchestra Gaming Community, if someone wishes to make it:


Bazentin Ridge

-Description- Another subsidiary attack in the Battle of the Somme. The battle was fought between the 14th and 17th of July. Launched in the early morning on the 14th the British used a quick bombardment to successfully drive the German defenders into cover. The British succeeded in capturing the first trenches in only a few hours

-Map Type- British Offensive

-Date- July 14-17th 1916

-Units- ?

-Unit Classes

British
Riflemen (unlimited)
Rifle Grenadier (3)
Lewis Gunner (1)
Lewis Support (3)
Bomber (4)
NCO (1)
Forward Observer (1)

German
Riflemen (unlimited)
MG (2)
MG Support (6)
Officer (1)


The general landscape of the battle


A very nice map found on Wiki. This should be the basis for the map, just narrower.

Delville Wood

This is the plan for one of maps in the game:


Delville Wood:

-Description
The 154 acre wood was the scene for a viscous close quarter battle on the Somme. The South Africans took this wood, but soon had to fight off German counter attacks. On the evening of the 17th a German bombardment began. A few South Africans survived and eventually were pushed back.

-Map Type
German Offensive, South Africans have to hold objectives

Date
17th July

-Units
British- South African Brigade of the 9th Scottish Division
German- ?

Unit Classes
British
-Riflemen
-Grenadier x5
-Lewis gunner x1
-Support gunner x2
-Officer x1
German
-Schutze
-Grenadier x6
-Leutnant x1

Typical trench found in the area, nothing elaborate


The "wood"


Trench map of the wood


Edit: sketch up finished. Again just a loose outline of what it should look like.



Last edited by CrazyThumbs on Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Iron Europe II

I'm really just posting this here top keep a record of the messages we sent; I don't have a Microsoft Office program yet:

CrazyThumbs, to speak frankly, and I'm sorry to sound unpleasant, but really I don't know what you did with this. blink.gif

We had everything up here; now, I can't remember it all, but we had quotes from Linoleum describing the Barbed Wire at the Somme; I had information about the German's use of Barbed Wire during WWI, some additional trench maps, a website with a Somme photo archive, also a link to photos of the Somme which I had collected, and there was that Pierre's Western Front web site that showed photos of Gommecourt and some of the German Bunkers that were there.

(sigh) Bozemoy . . .


I went through the entire thread, and deleted all the posts that, at least I felt, we didn't need. The main post was revised while discussion was going on in this thread and updated accordingly. I made a completely new and accurate sketch of the map, trench lines are all taken from maps, barbed wire, (showing how deep it should be underneath the picture), and stuff like that.

Almost all the useful information we have for the map is included in that first post, and other info that got deleted but isn't in the first post, is posted somewhere else on this site. Your links about barbed wire and German trenches are in the historical section, and I'd imagine any extra Somme photos are in there to.


QUOTE
I mean, we could spend very little time researching the maps, and just make something and call it Loos or Zeebruge Raid, but that isn't the RO realism tradition, and, I don't think, is going to make a great or interesting map.

That seems to me more Battlefield 1918 style (I like their Mod a lot; but their Langemarck is going to nothing like ours).



? I copied the trench maps as exact as possible, I took in to account the slope of the battlefield, the no mans land distance is not an estimation.
The information you posted, was general maps, then we discussed barbed wire (which I updated into the sketch/thread), German trenches with links (which we have in the historical section), we never came to a conclusion about pillboxes and bunkers, and some other assorted pictures.
We didn't cover unit histories, or work on the general history for Gommecourt.
What's in the first post is all the info we really have, that hasn't been posted in other places.





QUOTE
And also, to level just some gentle criticism, your Introduction (so far) doesn't explain to our hypothetically player who doesn't know anything about WWI (and there will be many in the U.S. and other parts of the world) why this attack was launched and what was its significance for the First World War. Try and make it sound exciting and sad.

You don't have to write the full Intros like I'm doing for the maps I've researched, although I encourage people who are writing Intros to do so; most people in the U.S. and elsewhere don't know about these battles, and, yes, that includes even a major pivitol event like the Somme.

Maybe you should look at DH's Intro for Pegasus Bridge (Beneoville, whatever).

I think that was the best one DH wrote and use that as a model (they didn't write Intros for all their maps). I also like the Leningrad Intro for vanilla RO.

If you just want a bare bones Introduction with little information, you could do that, but I don't see how that excites people about playing this map or about WWI or makes them interested in playing this map and the Mod.

I mean, this is probably the most significant battle and event of WWI; maybe not strategically speaking (who knows, I'm not military expert), but at least, for the British, from a cultural and remembrance perspective; people from all across the British world were there.



"*Temporary, will be revised later (probably by me)" -taken from the first post. I know the intro right now sucks, and you told me I should work on it, which I agreed, and I'm still going to. It's just not critical to get the intro down right now.

Iron Europe

I am working on a First World War PC video game modification for the game "Red Orchestra" by Tripwire International (Roswell, Georgia, USA).


I'm just going to post a few things as backup here; I recently had a disagreement with the guy in charge of the Mod who deleted some research I had done of Gommecourt:

He goes by the moniker of "CrazyThumbs":

CrazyThumbs, to speak frankly, and I'm sorry to sound unpleasant, but really I don't know what you did with this.


We had everything up here; now, I can't remember it all, but we had quotes from Linoleum describing the Barbed Wire at the Somme; I had information about the German's use of Barbed Wire during WWI, some additional trench maps, a website with a Somme photo archive, also a link to photos of the Somme which I had collected, and there was that Pierre's Western Front web site that showed photos of Gommecourt and some of the German Bunkers that were there.


(sigh) Bozemoy . . .




I also had an Osprey description of the German defenses and a link.


We had it all researched, and now most of it is gone.


All that information was relevant for this particular Map.


Even if some of the information was somewhat duplicate of other posts in the Thread, it is always good to get differing accounts and views from historical writers.


I agree, it may have not been pasted in the most logical order, but that isn't really that big of a deal anyway, and at least we had the information.


I mean, we could spend very little time researching the maps, and just make something and call it Loos or Zeebruge Raid, but that isn't the RO realism tradition, and, I don't think, is going to make a great or interesting map.

That seems to me more Battlefield 1918 style (I like their Mod a lot; but their Langemarck is going to nothing like ours).





Also, before you "clean up" something, I think it would be common courtesy and polite to ask other forum members about their post before they are deleted.


The only exceptions should be if someone posts something that is racially or ethnically offensive or obscene or spam.



I think anything that increases our understanding about WWI, even in a minute way, should be welcomed and allowed and kept.


If you want to delete something someone posted, you should ask.



Unilaterally discarding posts on your own with no consultation really baffles me.



OK, I tried to help you with some of the research for this map; I spent some leisure time at least three hours, maybe six hours) gathering and posting stuff up here, time I could have spent doing something else, and now this stuff is all gone.


Well, I did it once; I'm sorry, I won't be doing it twice on this map.



And I wish the best of luck to whoever is going to map this because in my opinion you hardly have any information here now.




And also, to level just some gentle criticism, your Introduction (so far) doesn't explain to our hypothetically player who doesn't know anything about WWI (and there will be many in the U.S. and other parts of the world) why this attack was launched and what was its significance for the First World War. Try and make it sound exciting and sad.



You don't have to write the full Intros like I'm doing for the maps I've researched, although I encourage people who are writing Intros to do so; most people in the U.S. and elsewhere don't know about these battles, and, yes, that includes even a major pivitol event like the Somme.



Maybe you should look at DH's Intro for Pegasus Bridge (Beneoville, whatever).

I think that was the best one DH wrote and use that as a model (they didn't write Intros for all their maps). I also like the Leningrad Intro for vanilla RO.


If you just want a bare bones Introduction with little information, you could do that, but I don't see how that excites people about playing this map or about WWI or makes them interested in playing this map and the Mod.



I mean, this is probably the most significant battle and event of WWI; maybe not strategically speaking (who knows, I'm not military expert), but at least, for the British, from a cultural and remembrance perspective; people from all across the British world were there.



And that one trench map you have looks like it is written in some Asian language.



Look, I am not trying to bash you; this is just business talk and what, as a researcher with a B.A. degree, I think is in the best interest and good for your map idea.

I don't mean to sound brusque.





The main goal, generally speaking, in researching a map is to give the Map Maker a strong sense of what the setting of the battle was like.


That is why, in the maps, I researched, I have all the photos, and try to include some personal stories from the battle: personal tribute webpages, eyewitness accounts, recollections, etc.



The main goal, generally speaking, in writing an Intro, is to explain to the potential RO Player and also the Map Maker why the battle was fought, its significance, and something about the Units that fought.



(Hint: I think you should mention Douglas Haig and that the offensive was designed to draw off the German forces that were attacking Verdun and break the stalemate on the Western Front; also for the Units, mention Kitchener's New Army; you can look up the Osprey book on the Somme in Google books and it explains all about it).



If you need any pointers in or want any help writing the Intro, I am still more than happy to give you some advice. Just PM me about it.